Hans Wilschut Interview May 28, 2008
William Hunter (interviewer) Fumiaki and Gina (cameras/video)
WH: You say that the photographic study is a dialogue with the city. What does that mean for you?
HW: It means that I go to the city and try to react on the things that wonder me, that give me ideas and I can never predict what will happen. So the city sort of dictates what I will do.
WH: And is the product that you develop; is that sort of the answer to these questions or the dialogue, the conversation that you have? Do you see as sort of giving anything back to the city at all with this conversation? Or is just about the city’s feeding you these new things?
HW: Yeah the city is feeding me. I’m not really looking for answers actually. The city gives me reasons for other questions- not in the literal way, more in a process, as a process.
WH: You also mention that your images reveal what only the photographic eye can see? Does this mean we’re missing something or being too quick with our naked observations?
HW: Oh yeah. I think nowadays we are so use to image, with everything that comes, with all the influences that come towards us. Such as internet- we can travel the whole world through the internet. By television, by what you see on the streets, or the billboards. Image has become a very flucterative thing. I think if you take time- the photographic eye takes time for this. Sort of creates a moment of slowness.
WH: Right, rather than being lazy. The general person kind of going around is spoiled by the images. They don’t do enough investigation into things- seeing behind something.
HW: Do the fact that we consume image very quickly, we make conclusions very quickly as well. For me, the aim of making photographs is to slow this process down. And raise more questions. Not to aim at answers, but to get the process of thinking about the environment going.
WH: What’s the longest amount of time you have spent trying to capture and produce an image?
HW: On the spot you mean? Or…
WH: Well because you mentioned that, sometimes you have to- you go in- if you see something, going around a city that interests you and you take these quick photos as almost like documentation and memory devices to then possibly go back and then to capture it in the real way you want to. And you’ve also mentioned going to places that you’re not supposed to be at. Not necessarily trespassing, but sometimes its harder to get to a certain place. So what’s the most challenging piece or project that you’ve been involved with where it took more time to get what you wanted or to realize exactly what you wanted out of a site?
HW: I have a few actually. But an interesting one is one I did in Lagos last year, of a building that was collapsed partly, which made the building controversial because it was showing lack of direction by the city government. In Lagos they did not want tourists to photograph the building, so it was guarded by soldiers in every angle, every street. For me I found this location on top of the highest building of Lagos Island and to obtain this permission, I think only that cost me 4 days, 4 days of waiting in corridors and going from different stages and hierarchy of the company. And then at the moment that I thought I had the picture, coming back in Holland, there was something wrong with the light. It didn’t match, so I had to go back a few months later and I had to go through the same process again. Which was altogether a pretty long process of taking this photo.
WH: You’re talking about ‘Landmark’?
HW: Yeah, ‘Landmark’
WH: That goes to my next question. That’s one of your most recent projects. How does that piece represent your general, total ideas on urbanization, where it’s at now, for that one it was about- you talk about it being a regenerative urbanization, like the opposite direction, since it was collapsing or had collapsed?
HW: Before that I used to photograph a lot of urbanization things that were the result of capitalistic societies. So, architecture that exists through in investments. So here it totally reversed. When a country doesn’t play a role in the global economics, its somehow can result in a shape of architecture that is almost organic. For me that was an interesting change.
WH: With most of the pieces you do, you say you’re asking this question ‘What’s really there”. “What’s really behind what we see or don’t see”. What is it about that that interests you? It might be obvious what that is because you just have sort of an imagination that goes beyond what is always kind of presented to us. But how does that fuel your work? It seems to be that driving force behind what you get to seek and what you photograph. It’s always this sort of back door thing, whether it’s an industrial plant, or these backyards, or the city from a viewpoint that most people aren’t at. We’re not always on top of buildings. We experience most things from the street level. And a lot of your photographs take us to places that we haven’t been.
HW: Yeah it reveals something from another point of view or another harmony or disharmony of the city. But I don’t understand your question actually.
WH: Well, what is it about this sort of, this thing beyond that interests you, that seems to be very central to all your pieces? What is it about that, rather than, as other photographers might be, they take pictures of what exists. Its almost just a documentation of either a culture, or…
HW: Right, like a registration of things.
WH: Yeah.
HW: Well it’s the urge to see the things differently. It’s the urge to photograph in a lot of cities and still the urge to leave behind with only one city, the one that’s in my mind, that’s a result of the choices and not the geographical connection. I’m using real cities to make almost unreal photographs of them as if they were constructed.
WH: It also seems that a lot of your pieces are night scenes. I don’t know if that’s an effect that you’re getting after you take it, in the studio or… a lot of them seem to be- the sky is very dark and therefore you get to really see these lights of the city or a place, whether it’s a street light or all the lights of the buildings. Is that true or do you have other, do you take, do you also have pieces that exists during the daytime.
HW: I do have some. I do have some. It has to do with the subject of the photograph. If I would shoot something very literal, very boring, very naked as a subject, I might choose for daylight. I don’t want to make it more than it is. Sometimes it’s really interesting to see the influence of light to feel the intensity. Somehow the intensity of a place becomes more real if it’s a night seen for me. And also the fact that through the night light, it’s a tool to alienate the scene from reality. I’m very interested in taking the time for light, finding the right situation by the scene that I’m shooting.
WH: Maybe the last thing. How much time goes into the actual production of the photo? After you’ve got the image, after you take the picture and you bring it back to the studio?
HW: Well, most of the time goes to letting it rest. I usually make big prints as sketches, so like 140(cm) wide or so. I try to understand if a picture stays powerful or not. This can take half a year, and sometimes even longer. I just finished a work that I kept 4 years waiting or so, and after realizing now it’s the right time, now it’s fitting all together. But maybe you want to know how much time I spend behind the computer for post production- this is not so long actually.
WH: So often or hopefully you just get the shot and when it’s ready to be processed it’s almost there.
HW: Yeah. I do have some shots that I know on the moment of shooting that they are powerful. It happens a few times a year. But this is rare actually.
WH: And it seems like your work has taken you many places. Has there ever been a place that really surprised you or that you saw something in a place that you wouldn’t have imagined.
HW: Oh it happens all the time actually. That’s the interesting part of going to cities with the only goal of trying to understand the city in terms of making photos of it. And it means that sometimes I miss parts of a city that others usually see.
WH: Do you always do that? Are you always the photographer? Are you ever just the visitor? Or are you always looking at cities that way now?
HW: Actually I went to Turkey for a holiday and then I came to realize that it was very interesting to go back for photography and then I saw the city in a totally different way. But I had to disconnect from the other experience. It was difficult because I had been a tourist already. I had to change the approach. And it resulted actually in a work that expressed the feeling of being a tourist. It was a hotel situation that felt like a prison, because it was not finished yet at the moment I shot it was still concrete and there was only one person living in it- you could tell by the little light- it was a guard. But this particular photograph totally represented my feeling as a tourist being in such a resort disconnected from the other culture, which a lot of tourists do. They just go there. They eat there sleep there, they swim, they party, and they don’t enter the country or leave the resort.
WH: Do you guys have anything?
FG: What were your interests when you were a student? We are students now…?
HW: Actually when I was a student I studied painting. I painted very abstract paintings. But at that time I already made drawings of city details, which I made more abstract in the paintings. Funny thing is that nowadays I make a lot of abstract photographs, starting very sharp and very real, but by the tools that I have, I try to get more distance from the reality. So I’m sort of back where I started.
FG: Ok thanks.
WH: Good?
FG: Yep.
WH: Ok.
William Hunter (interviewer) Fumiaki and Gina (cameras/video)
WH: You say that the photographic study is a dialogue with the city. What does that mean for you?
HW: It means that I go to the city and try to react on the things that wonder me, that give me ideas and I can never predict what will happen. So the city sort of dictates what I will do.
WH: And is the product that you develop; is that sort of the answer to these questions or the dialogue, the conversation that you have? Do you see as sort of giving anything back to the city at all with this conversation? Or is just about the city’s feeding you these new things?
HW: Yeah the city is feeding me. I’m not really looking for answers actually. The city gives me reasons for other questions- not in the literal way, more in a process, as a process.
WH: You also mention that your images reveal what only the photographic eye can see? Does this mean we’re missing something or being too quick with our naked observations?
HW: Oh yeah. I think nowadays we are so use to image, with everything that comes, with all the influences that come towards us. Such as internet- we can travel the whole world through the internet. By television, by what you see on the streets, or the billboards. Image has become a very flucterative thing. I think if you take time- the photographic eye takes time for this. Sort of creates a moment of slowness.
WH: Right, rather than being lazy. The general person kind of going around is spoiled by the images. They don’t do enough investigation into things- seeing behind something.
HW: Do the fact that we consume image very quickly, we make conclusions very quickly as well. For me, the aim of making photographs is to slow this process down. And raise more questions. Not to aim at answers, but to get the process of thinking about the environment going.
WH: What’s the longest amount of time you have spent trying to capture and produce an image?
HW: On the spot you mean? Or…
WH: Well because you mentioned that, sometimes you have to- you go in- if you see something, going around a city that interests you and you take these quick photos as almost like documentation and memory devices to then possibly go back and then to capture it in the real way you want to. And you’ve also mentioned going to places that you’re not supposed to be at. Not necessarily trespassing, but sometimes its harder to get to a certain place. So what’s the most challenging piece or project that you’ve been involved with where it took more time to get what you wanted or to realize exactly what you wanted out of a site?
HW: I have a few actually. But an interesting one is one I did in Lagos last year, of a building that was collapsed partly, which made the building controversial because it was showing lack of direction by the city government. In Lagos they did not want tourists to photograph the building, so it was guarded by soldiers in every angle, every street. For me I found this location on top of the highest building of Lagos Island and to obtain this permission, I think only that cost me 4 days, 4 days of waiting in corridors and going from different stages and hierarchy of the company. And then at the moment that I thought I had the picture, coming back in Holland, there was something wrong with the light. It didn’t match, so I had to go back a few months later and I had to go through the same process again. Which was altogether a pretty long process of taking this photo.
WH: You’re talking about ‘Landmark’?
HW: Yeah, ‘Landmark’
WH: That goes to my next question. That’s one of your most recent projects. How does that piece represent your general, total ideas on urbanization, where it’s at now, for that one it was about- you talk about it being a regenerative urbanization, like the opposite direction, since it was collapsing or had collapsed?
HW: Before that I used to photograph a lot of urbanization things that were the result of capitalistic societies. So, architecture that exists through in investments. So here it totally reversed. When a country doesn’t play a role in the global economics, its somehow can result in a shape of architecture that is almost organic. For me that was an interesting change.
WH: With most of the pieces you do, you say you’re asking this question ‘What’s really there”. “What’s really behind what we see or don’t see”. What is it about that that interests you? It might be obvious what that is because you just have sort of an imagination that goes beyond what is always kind of presented to us. But how does that fuel your work? It seems to be that driving force behind what you get to seek and what you photograph. It’s always this sort of back door thing, whether it’s an industrial plant, or these backyards, or the city from a viewpoint that most people aren’t at. We’re not always on top of buildings. We experience most things from the street level. And a lot of your photographs take us to places that we haven’t been.
HW: Yeah it reveals something from another point of view or another harmony or disharmony of the city. But I don’t understand your question actually.
WH: Well, what is it about this sort of, this thing beyond that interests you, that seems to be very central to all your pieces? What is it about that, rather than, as other photographers might be, they take pictures of what exists. Its almost just a documentation of either a culture, or…
HW: Right, like a registration of things.
WH: Yeah.
HW: Well it’s the urge to see the things differently. It’s the urge to photograph in a lot of cities and still the urge to leave behind with only one city, the one that’s in my mind, that’s a result of the choices and not the geographical connection. I’m using real cities to make almost unreal photographs of them as if they were constructed.
WH: It also seems that a lot of your pieces are night scenes. I don’t know if that’s an effect that you’re getting after you take it, in the studio or… a lot of them seem to be- the sky is very dark and therefore you get to really see these lights of the city or a place, whether it’s a street light or all the lights of the buildings. Is that true or do you have other, do you take, do you also have pieces that exists during the daytime.
HW: I do have some. I do have some. It has to do with the subject of the photograph. If I would shoot something very literal, very boring, very naked as a subject, I might choose for daylight. I don’t want to make it more than it is. Sometimes it’s really interesting to see the influence of light to feel the intensity. Somehow the intensity of a place becomes more real if it’s a night seen for me. And also the fact that through the night light, it’s a tool to alienate the scene from reality. I’m very interested in taking the time for light, finding the right situation by the scene that I’m shooting.
WH: Maybe the last thing. How much time goes into the actual production of the photo? After you’ve got the image, after you take the picture and you bring it back to the studio?
HW: Well, most of the time goes to letting it rest. I usually make big prints as sketches, so like 140(cm) wide or so. I try to understand if a picture stays powerful or not. This can take half a year, and sometimes even longer. I just finished a work that I kept 4 years waiting or so, and after realizing now it’s the right time, now it’s fitting all together. But maybe you want to know how much time I spend behind the computer for post production- this is not so long actually.
WH: So often or hopefully you just get the shot and when it’s ready to be processed it’s almost there.
HW: Yeah. I do have some shots that I know on the moment of shooting that they are powerful. It happens a few times a year. But this is rare actually.
WH: And it seems like your work has taken you many places. Has there ever been a place that really surprised you or that you saw something in a place that you wouldn’t have imagined.
HW: Oh it happens all the time actually. That’s the interesting part of going to cities with the only goal of trying to understand the city in terms of making photos of it. And it means that sometimes I miss parts of a city that others usually see.
WH: Do you always do that? Are you always the photographer? Are you ever just the visitor? Or are you always looking at cities that way now?
HW: Actually I went to Turkey for a holiday and then I came to realize that it was very interesting to go back for photography and then I saw the city in a totally different way. But I had to disconnect from the other experience. It was difficult because I had been a tourist already. I had to change the approach. And it resulted actually in a work that expressed the feeling of being a tourist. It was a hotel situation that felt like a prison, because it was not finished yet at the moment I shot it was still concrete and there was only one person living in it- you could tell by the little light- it was a guard. But this particular photograph totally represented my feeling as a tourist being in such a resort disconnected from the other culture, which a lot of tourists do. They just go there. They eat there sleep there, they swim, they party, and they don’t enter the country or leave the resort.
WH: Do you guys have anything?
FG: What were your interests when you were a student? We are students now…?
HW: Actually when I was a student I studied painting. I painted very abstract paintings. But at that time I already made drawings of city details, which I made more abstract in the paintings. Funny thing is that nowadays I make a lot of abstract photographs, starting very sharp and very real, but by the tools that I have, I try to get more distance from the reality. So I’m sort of back where I started.
FG: Ok thanks.
WH: Good?
FG: Yep.
WH: Ok.
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